This is one of the deepest discussions I have ever heard concerning the spiritual rupture that takes place when you finally become untethered from the Novus Ordo and find tradition and the Faith you had always been seeking, even if not clearly perceived. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also, Our Lord said. Such simple words contain a profound truth about the recognition by the soul of what even the intellect may not be clearly aware. Well done, indeed, Kennedy!
Kennedy, when you said going to Novus Ordo after understanding or learning about the Latin Mass “makes your heart hurt,” I said to the screen “YES!” I’d said or thought that many times. Thank you.
Spot on, Felt (feel) the same way, still tied to a N.O. mass for an very Elderly MIL that was unchurched and un baptized prior to our taking her to N.O mass, every Sat night that we attended it makes me feel like crying the whole time, knowing what the mass should be. I want to tell everyone at the NO parish what they are missing but know I can’t and they wouldn’t listen, the struggle is very real for us newbie’s to Traditional mass, but grateful we have been received with open arms into tradition.
Very timely talk for me, as I struggle with being alone on this unexpected move towards tradition. You have my heart a voice…more clear than I could ever explain, thank you for that.
Kennedy, you hit the nail on the head. My husband and I were both born in the 1940s. We married in 1966, and we both followed the new religion as it was imposed on us in 1969. Then in 1997, I found Tradition. It was like coming home. My joy way unspeakable. The traditional Mass was buried inside of me, and it all came back to life. I could never go back to the N.O. Mass, because I love God too much. Never. But it is different for my husband. We have not been to Mass together since 1997. We are essentially estranged, but we still have charity. Deo gratias. And yes, I lost all my family and friends too in the process. This is my cross to bear, my ladder to heaven.
The problem is our last pope hated TLM. Our cathedral had a low mass during the week and a High Mass on Sunday. Frances removed them both. I am fine with a respectful NO weekday mass, kneeling and receiving on the tongue. That means no more mass on Sunday. I have a chronic pain problem which makes attending a long Mass impossible and I am uninterested in a jolly social club.
Our problem is more than NO vs TLM. It is that virtually all universities which teach Latin do so with the pronunciation of the Classical Latin which began to be reanimated in the 19th century. The classical pronunciation ,had previously ende at the latest, according to Hans Orberg, in the ninth century. A person who wants to study the pagan authors who martyred the early church can find many outlets, as higher education is atheist education.
When I hear Latin scholars recite a Latin prayer in classical pronunciation, it is anathema to me. Ecclesiastical Latin is the living Latin of the my Church. Try singing a Latin hymn or praying a Latin prayer, with classical pronunciation. It pains me, as a former cantor and chorister. It sounds ridiculous.
I refuse to do it. The authentic living language of Latin is that of Catholics and early Protestants. I refuse to say or listen to the ugly twisting of a Latin ecclesiastical prayer, liturgy or song into classical Latin. Leave the study of the early Romans to the scholars, the high and mighty who view Catholics as inferior.
Once one realizes that the Traditional Rite is all about charity for God, and how everything about the Rite draws you closer to Him you just can’t un-see it and you can't go back. When / if I have to attend a N.O. mass it makes me almost cry to see what they have done to His Church.
Your arguments regarding lack of charity in the Novis Ordo could also be extended to all religions outside of the Church. Political organizations too as they are just extensions of various religions. They are all man-made and made to glorify man. You could almost say the are type of Anti-Christ as they do not espouse and are contrary to Christ's teachings.
I pray that the current church repents comes & back to Christ's teaching otherwise I fear the same outcome for the Vatican as the Jews and their temple received in the Old Testament. The parallels are uncanny.
I think the issue with the Donatists was that they had suffered terribly for their faith but then saw people whom they believed had avoided this suffering by giving in to the Roman authorities restored to positions in the hierarchy. They allowed their personal sense of hurt and the sense that those priests had failed them personally to eclipse their charity for lost brethren who had repented and been restored to their priestly vocations. There is a weird parallel with the Holocaust: during the Third Reich there was a minority of Jews who avoided being persecuted because they had by various means or accidents avoided being identified as Jews. E.g. Some Mensheviks who were Jews who fled Soviet Russia to Austria originally had their official confessions registered as “Freethinkers” rather than as Jews because as socialists they had become agnostics or atheists. Therefore some of them and their families were not enrolled as Jews in any secular or Jewish rosters. Yet when the Holocaust ended many of those who survived the camps reviled these Jews who had escaped detection for not having suffered alongside them. In reality they should have been thankful that some of their co-religionists evaded and outsmarted the Nazi authorities. Likewise the Donatists hated those Christians whom they believed had “cheated” their way out of suffering. Their hurt Ego eclipsed what should have been their Agape. After all Christ forgave Peter his brief period of weakness and betrayal.
This is one of the deepest discussions I have ever heard concerning the spiritual rupture that takes place when you finally become untethered from the Novus Ordo and find tradition and the Faith you had always been seeking, even if not clearly perceived. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also, Our Lord said. Such simple words contain a profound truth about the recognition by the soul of what even the intellect may not be clearly aware. Well done, indeed, Kennedy!
thank you!
Kennedy, when you said going to Novus Ordo after understanding or learning about the Latin Mass “makes your heart hurt,” I said to the screen “YES!” I’d said or thought that many times. Thank you.
Spot on, Felt (feel) the same way, still tied to a N.O. mass for an very Elderly MIL that was unchurched and un baptized prior to our taking her to N.O mass, every Sat night that we attended it makes me feel like crying the whole time, knowing what the mass should be. I want to tell everyone at the NO parish what they are missing but know I can’t and they wouldn’t listen, the struggle is very real for us newbie’s to Traditional mass, but grateful we have been received with open arms into tradition.
This is by far one of your greatest speeches.
this is awesome
Very timely talk for me, as I struggle with being alone on this unexpected move towards tradition. You have my heart a voice…more clear than I could ever explain, thank you for that.
Kennedy, you hit the nail on the head. My husband and I were both born in the 1940s. We married in 1966, and we both followed the new religion as it was imposed on us in 1969. Then in 1997, I found Tradition. It was like coming home. My joy way unspeakable. The traditional Mass was buried inside of me, and it all came back to life. I could never go back to the N.O. Mass, because I love God too much. Never. But it is different for my husband. We have not been to Mass together since 1997. We are essentially estranged, but we still have charity. Deo gratias. And yes, I lost all my family and friends too in the process. This is my cross to bear, my ladder to heaven.
The problem is our last pope hated TLM. Our cathedral had a low mass during the week and a High Mass on Sunday. Frances removed them both. I am fine with a respectful NO weekday mass, kneeling and receiving on the tongue. That means no more mass on Sunday. I have a chronic pain problem which makes attending a long Mass impossible and I am uninterested in a jolly social club.
Our problem is more than NO vs TLM. It is that virtually all universities which teach Latin do so with the pronunciation of the Classical Latin which began to be reanimated in the 19th century. The classical pronunciation ,had previously ende at the latest, according to Hans Orberg, in the ninth century. A person who wants to study the pagan authors who martyred the early church can find many outlets, as higher education is atheist education.
When I hear Latin scholars recite a Latin prayer in classical pronunciation, it is anathema to me. Ecclesiastical Latin is the living Latin of the my Church. Try singing a Latin hymn or praying a Latin prayer, with classical pronunciation. It pains me, as a former cantor and chorister. It sounds ridiculous.
I refuse to do it. The authentic living language of Latin is that of Catholics and early Protestants. I refuse to say or listen to the ugly twisting of a Latin ecclesiastical prayer, liturgy or song into classical Latin. Leave the study of the early Romans to the scholars, the high and mighty who view Catholics as inferior.
I don't know that it was a deficit of heart on the part of the clergy rather than a simple growing attachment to materialism among the faithful.
Another slam dunk, great podcast!
Once one realizes that the Traditional Rite is all about charity for God, and how everything about the Rite draws you closer to Him you just can’t un-see it and you can't go back. When / if I have to attend a N.O. mass it makes me almost cry to see what they have done to His Church.
Your arguments regarding lack of charity in the Novis Ordo could also be extended to all religions outside of the Church. Political organizations too as they are just extensions of various religions. They are all man-made and made to glorify man. You could almost say the are type of Anti-Christ as they do not espouse and are contrary to Christ's teachings.
I pray that the current church repents comes & back to Christ's teaching otherwise I fear the same outcome for the Vatican as the Jews and their temple received in the Old Testament. The parallels are uncanny.
Cancelled before canceling was a thing
I think the issue with the Donatists was that they had suffered terribly for their faith but then saw people whom they believed had avoided this suffering by giving in to the Roman authorities restored to positions in the hierarchy. They allowed their personal sense of hurt and the sense that those priests had failed them personally to eclipse their charity for lost brethren who had repented and been restored to their priestly vocations. There is a weird parallel with the Holocaust: during the Third Reich there was a minority of Jews who avoided being persecuted because they had by various means or accidents avoided being identified as Jews. E.g. Some Mensheviks who were Jews who fled Soviet Russia to Austria originally had their official confessions registered as “Freethinkers” rather than as Jews because as socialists they had become agnostics or atheists. Therefore some of them and their families were not enrolled as Jews in any secular or Jewish rosters. Yet when the Holocaust ended many of those who survived the camps reviled these Jews who had escaped detection for not having suffered alongside them. In reality they should have been thankful that some of their co-religionists evaded and outsmarted the Nazi authorities. Likewise the Donatists hated those Christians whom they believed had “cheated” their way out of suffering. Their hurt Ego eclipsed what should have been their Agape. After all Christ forgave Peter his brief period of weakness and betrayal.